went in a few times about 10 years ago and it was always dog rough. clearly not as dog rough as a few of the city centre pubs (bless ye general elliot!) but still not somewhere I'd trust in the 'trouble' stakes.

packhorse is one of those places that is murdered by sport - it's ok in the summer when you can sit in the alleyway but I always found it a bit disappointing.

plus if we include too many pubs we'll be constantly moving and some people may die of alcohol poisoning so I figure that only going to actively good places is a good idea. the Pin sounds interesting...